Talk:William Parsons, 3rd Earl of Rosse

Types of Nebulae and the significance of Rosse's observations

Sorry for poor, sketchy English and lack of references, I'm quite tired.

The nature of nebulae was not known in Rosse's time. Galaxies and galactic and extra-galactic gas clouds were not well distinguished. It was not until he made his observations with the telescope he made (the largest in the world until 1917 when the American 100 inch Hooker telescope at Mt. Wilson Observatory was built) that "spiral nebulae", as they were at first called, were known about. To put this in context: it was not well determined that anything existed outside our own galaxy due to the limitations of contemporary methods of measurement using parallax of stars, and prevailing opinion was that we were near the centre of the galaxy.

"resolvable" and "irresolvable" nebulae of Hershel.

Mr. Jones 18:01, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Need for references

What are the references for Lord Rosse (elder or younger) please? user:Anna L Martin 18.17, 26 March 2007

Third son - Clere or Clare?

His third son, described here as "Hon. Richard Clere Parsons" was one of the passengers (along with his younger brother Charles Algernon Parsons) on the steam "car" that caused the first traffic accident, and the death of their second cousin Mary Ward. This source [1] quotes the King's County Chronicle report of the inquest and gives his name as "Clare". Any other sources? Andy Dingley (talk) 19:14, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

From Clere Parsons' grand-nephew, Michael Parsons' Trinity Monday Discourse, 1968, "The second son, Clere, became a highly successful railway engineer and was responsible for constructing railway lines throughout the world, especially in South America; while the youngest, Charles, became world-famous as the inventor of the steam-turbine." See p.12 here, http://www.tcd.ie/Secretary/FellowsScholars/discourses/discourses/1968_Lord%20Rosse%20on%20W.%20Parsons.pdf which in turn you can find here, http://www.tcd.ie/Secretary/FellowsScholars/discourses/

I think you are also concerned (possessive, maybe?) about members of this family being not Irish for some reason? I think you once objected to Charles Parsons being described as Irish using the excuse/detail that he was London-born (previously on the the talk-page for Charles Parsons I pointed to the example of "the great British philosopher Anscombe who was born in Limerick, but the Irish do not say she was Irish, nor Anglo-Irish, she was a British person who happened to have been born in Ireland (her father was stationed there). There are countless examples of the same..."). I think it's simply that some people (incl you, no?) want to claim Charles Parsons as British only, and exclude the more (or solely) Irish part of his make-up, just because he was brilliant. Funny how only the great ones are claimed.

These references and comments are from Charles Parsons' family, Michael Parsons (his grand-nephew). Can you provide evidence to prove that the family are wrong? If necessary we can later contact Brendan Parsons. My old housemate knew him 20 years ago. Well now, in the same reference I just gave, one can see on page 5 that Charles Parson's father:

"William Parsons, subsequently to become third Earl of Rosse, came of a family which first crossed to Ireland from Leicestershire towards the end of the Elizabethan era, at almost exactly the time of the foundation of this College [TCD]. His paternal ancestors had subsequently lived at Birr for eight consecutive generations and had become firmly rooted in the soil of Central Ireland".

And so, Charles Parsons' paternal ancestors lived at Birr for 9 consecutive generations and the 9th generation was also firmly rooted in the soil of Central Ireland. In fact they were so well rooted that "excursions from Birr were to be very rare" (p.6).

On page 7 this is how the 6th Earl Michael Parsons describes the education of William, the 3rd Earl, his great grandfather (Charles Parsons' father):

"Unfortunately no information about the two years spent there [TCD] has come to light, except that they both acquitted themselves so creditably that they were sent on to Magdalen College, Oxford. For an IRISH BOY this was an unusual step at that time and there must have been weighty reasons indeed to induce their father, in particular, to take it, both because of his political traditions and because of his own long-standing associations with Trinity. It can only be that his parental feelings came first and that their records so far were outstanding enough for them to deserve the very best education available to suit their special talents at the time. Presumably he was advised that this could be got even better at Oxford".

Then when Charles Parsons' father, the great astronomer William, brought up his family at Birr:

"a steady stream of visitors came, from all over the world. For more than half a century, to the end of my grandfather's life [1908], Birr became an international scientific centre...Scientific discoveries continued to be made at Birr for a further forty years, to which brief reference should be made. The FOUR SONS [incl Charles] of the house were educated AT HOME [in Birr, in IRELAND] by private tutors, all of whom were well versed in the sciences and acted also as practical assistants to their father in his astronomical work. One of them later became, as Sir Robert Ball, Astronomer Royal for Ireland." (p.11)

We can learn about further growing up & education in Ireland when on page 9 in a comment that Charles Parsons' mother:

"was an equally devoted wife and mother and subsequently showed her conscientiousness with regard to her sons' education by taking a house in Dublin, when the two youngest entered this College [TCD] shortly after their father's death."

So Charles Parsons and brothers grew up in Ireland, were educated at home, and then went to the nearest university (a pretty good one too) in the capital along with their mother who took a house there. All very straight-forward. Why then do you object to him being described as Irish? It is more likely true if there was a British element in HIS idea of his make-up then, it would've been as "Irish and British".

He may well have considered that he had added the "British" bit to his identity after moving to Britain (as an adult) and spending many years there - straight forward Naturalisation.

Also as I said above, "using the term "Anglo-Irish" does explain a bit more about the person's heritage, but in fact the "Anglo-Irish" were surprised to hear of themselves being described as a 'hyphenated Irish' person! This is because they themselves considered themselves "Irish". At different stages of varying political debate and intensity some of the (Anglo-) Irish may have called themselves British ASWELL". I might've added that 'the "Anglo-Irish" were surprised AND OFTEN ANNOYED to hear of themselves being described as a 'hyphenated Irish' person! This is because they themselves considered themselves "Irish"....'

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donn300 (talk • contribs) 21:07, 20 May 2014 (UTC)